"They", by Siegfried Sassoon

[labellementeuse]

ANZAC day's coming up again, but I just felt like some Sassoon a bit early. mmm, rage.

"Let no one ever, from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war.
It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain
some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it
are criminals. Were there even anything to say for it, it should not be said;
for its spiritual disasters far outweigh any of its advantages."
--Siegfried Sassoon

'They'

The Bishop tells us: 'When the boys come back
'They will not be the same; for they'll have fought
'In a just cause: they lead the last attack
'On Anti-Christ; their comrades' blood has bought
'New right to breed an honourable race,
'They have challenged Death and dared him face to face.'

'We're none of us the same!' the boys reply.
'For George lost both his legs; and Bill's stone blind;
'Poor Jim's shot through the lungs and like to die;
'And Bert's gone syphilitic: you'll not find
'A chap who's served that hasn't found some change.
' And the Bishop said: 'The ways of God are strange!'

--Siegfried Sassoon

Comments

A quote to keep and treasure.

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

"War is hell, and those who institute it
are criminals."

[miriamus.livejournal.com]

One of my favourites.

[cabaiste84.livejournal.com]

Fantastic...

[derrick-reeves.livejournal.com]

I love reading Sassoon. His words can be spat out or choked down, depending on who's listening, and they always cast the speaker as the hero of the piece. (Performance is vanity, I suppose.)

To avoid getting into a war poets binge too early, I won't match you (or post some Owen), but I think some sort of reply in theme is in order.

Re: A quote to keep and treasure.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I agree.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Mine, too.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

:)

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

They can be misread, though... I know a lot of Christians who like this, when to me it really feels like an anti-Christian poem, or certainly anti-Christianity/Catholicism/Anglicanism- the highly ritualised religion. I don't know which of us is right, of course!

I usually do a bit of Owen on ANZAC Day... I haven't done Dulce et Decorum Est for a couple of years, actually. Hm.

[derrick-reeves.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about the poem in itself. I think you're right, though, as the man ended up writing 'Credo' in the 1930s. It's a little obscure - I only found it because I rule at buying poetry 2nd-hand and found a Selected of his printed in 1941 (and, yes, it has plenty of anti-war work!) - and perhaps not his best work, but it makes clear his convictions.


Credo
The heaven for which I wait has neither guard nor gate.
The God in whom I trust shall raise me not from the dust.
I shall not see that heaven for which my days have striven,
Nor kneel before the God toward whom my feet have trod.

But when from this half-human evolvement man and woman
Emerge, through brutish Me made strong and fair and free,
The dumb forgotten dead will be the ground they tread
And in their eyes will shine my deathless hope divine.

-- Siegfried Sassoon

[dryadwoman.livejournal.com]

;~) I like it when you post poems.

[cabaiste84.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of Christians who like this, when to me it really feels like an anti-Christian poem

In my own reading, I wouldn't say it's so much anti-Christian, as commenting on how some people use the cloak of religion to justify horrible events in history, the World Wars for example. Which happens a lot, unfortunately. :/

I don't know about you, but for me, this poem strongly evoked the Iraq War, and the whole conflict between America and the Middle East. And the religious conflicts in Northern Ireland.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I love the second line. Wow.

As you say, I could be wrong- and I was thinking about it today, actually, and thinking it was more against the tired and outused forms and formalities of religion, rather than Christianity specifically; but then in England in the early 1900's there wouldn't be all that much that was non-Christian, I think (although, you know, I'm mostly making that up. But Sassoon IIRC was reasonably well-off etc- very likely to be very exposed to Xtianity) So I don't know how much of it is directed at any different thing- the religion which raised him, religion in general, or Christianity specifically.

... Possibly I need to, you know, research the man before I put words in his mouth, hmm?

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll buy that. :) I'm really not sure about it, actually, as I think it can be taken either way.

And oh, yes, I wish this didn't remind me so vividly of the Iraq war. And really they shouldn't have all that many similarities; this isn't trench warfare or anything and the religious climate is so different- although I suppose this whole thing is rather reminiscent of a Crusade (or to use a different word with more negative connotations for pretty much the same thing: a jihad. ) *le sigh*

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

<3 Thank you! (I like it too, heh heh.)

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

PS, if you're into poetry, you should really check out nz_poetry, which is AWESOME. (I co-mod, so I have to say that, but seriously, it's great and not overspammy the way, say, greatpoets is.

[mandor700.livejournal.com]

"War makes fascists of us all"

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Indeed.