(no subject)

[labellementeuse]

Fanon I don't get: Sam & Dean speaking Latin.

Or, rather, I do get it because
a) that would be hot
b) fandom in general is made up of geeks. Geeks think obscure knowledge is hot and/or really freaking cool.
c) Latin! Latin is cool.
d) It's not *that* unreasonable. And it would be very useful, I mean, I think it would be a smart skill.

But I was rewatching Shadow last night and Meg speaks in Latin quite a lot in that episode, including a really kind of short phrase when she phones demon papa. And the phrase she uses is [something something] pater me audi. (I went and checked Super-Canon for a transcript; the Shadow transcript just has "Meg says stuff in an ancient language" which, well, ta for that; the Scarecrow transcript says "Tire quiero patem me a di.") My best guess is "te requiro pater me audi." Of course I could be totally wrong and it's not Latin at all; if, however, I'm right, this says... well, it appears to say "I demand that you hear me, father." Mind you, "pater me audi" says exactly the same thing a hell of a lot more quickly (literally, "hear me, father.") and I have a feeling the actual phrases used is kind of ungrammatical, but it's been a while since sixth form Latin, so I'm probably wrong.

Anyway, the point is? It's been nearly three years since I last studied Latin and the phrase "pater me audi" is distinctive and fairly easy to translate. But Sam goes on to say this:

     SAM: She was communicating with someone.
     DEAN: With who? With the Daeva?
     SAM: No, you said those things were savages. No, this was someone different. Someone who’s giving her orders.

So Sam's justification that Meg was speaking to demonpapa was Meg's later conversation in English - and nothing to do with the fact she addressed her mysterious boss-person as "father." Call me crazy, but that seems like way better evidence. I mean, he seems to be extrapolating, guessing, not having certainty - but if he could translate "pater me audi" he would have been certain.

... So now I really want a definitive translation of that Latin, and the rest of what she uses in the ep; or at least confirmation that, yup, it's Latin...

[note for my own purposes: my post in spn_possession on this subject.]

Comments

[amphibious-one.livejournal.com]

Mmm, the grammar fits very nicely... I'd guess it to be Latin. I think you're right with your translation, but I do wonder why audi isn't an infinitive in the longer sentence.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I trust your Latin an awful lot more than mine, so that's really encouraging! Thanks.

I agree about the audi, which is why I'm concerned that it's maybe not even Latin, because I can't quite make the grammar work... there seem to be extra objects floating around, or something. *shrug* Still and all, I'm pleased with my former latin geeky self...

[sixth-light.livejournal.com]

Could be badly translated Latin (a la Firefly Mandarin), or it could be Church Latin. I don't know the real differences between true Latin and Church Latin, apart from the k/ch pronunciation thing, but I do know they're there. And in the context of supernatural demons susceptible to holy water, Church Latin makes sense.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I'm going with "badly translated", myself, although someone over at spn_possession thought it worked pretty well so I could be wrong.

[jo-nzl.livejournal.com]

That certainly isn't something any classical Latin author would write (that's just not how they use the imperative) - they would write something like pater, te requiro ut audias me or possibly pater, te requiro me audire (though I'm not sure if Latin actually uses the infinitive in the way English does in that case). But it's probably comprehensible bad Latin.

Then again, knowing nothing about the context, I can't be entirely sure on that.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

It's in the context of, you know, magic (because saying something in Latin is MAGICAL, right.) I agree that the subjunctive is nicer (I would probably have used the infinitive, but that's 'cause I can't remember how to form the subjunctive, right)... I have a feeling, though, that whoever wrote the episode in question just made something up. :P The other possibility is that the actor said the "ire" wrong, so I suppose it could still be "te requiro pater me audire" if she said "audire" as "AWD-eer". Hmm?

I love tha there are enough people on my flist who know some latin to actually have discussion on this. :D

[kitsunerei88]

I wish I spoke Latin xD.

Except our high school latin teacher retired before I got there. xD.

I don't expect that people were meant to understand it, but then, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just making a random comment. xD.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I really regret dropping it after sixth form. I mean, I loved the class I took instead, which was History, but... yeah, it was a lot of fun (plus, it does actually come in bizarrely handy in fandom. Like now!)

Yeah, part of the reason I dropped it was that the really fantastic teacher had left the year before and the new one was a sweetheart, but not a very experienced teacher. :-/ Latin teachers are not easy to get hold of, apparently.

Oh, no, you're right, the audience definitely wasn't meant to understand it. I was just wondering how much of it the canon character observant was meant to have understood.