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Feb. 20th, 2005 02:31 pmOkay, I have a question (arising from a heated debate with floor-mates, unfortunately in which they all totally disagreed with me. But then, we can't have everything, and also their arguments were spurious, as I told them. I use deliberately obsucre words when I'm angry, probably because it's the only way I can think of to get the opposite party as frustrated as I am. It's probably a bad habit, but I was extremely angry, which is kind of unusual for me.)
So here it is: What do you guys think of the right to burn or deface the flag of your country? I, personally, feel that it's both an important part of freedom of speech and also the right to simple freedom to protest against your government. To separate and raise up the flag as an untouchable item to me seems to imply that, as the flag is untouchable, so is our country- that to burn the flag means you hate your country, based on the idea that the flag symbolises freedom and democracy.
To me, that's not what the flag of a country symbolises. I understand that to some people, that is what the flag symbolises, along with all good things about their country and so forth- it's very important to them. However, no matter how you feel about the flag, factually that is not what the flag represents. What a flag represents is a country- not the state of life in the country, not the people of a country, just the simple name. If you make the flag a holy or venerated item, you do the same to your country- making it itself unable to be criticised.
The reason flag-burning is such an effective protest is because yes, it means a lot to people. I understand that. But we must be free, I believe, to criticise and protest the country in whatever non-violent ways we feel are most appropriate. When criticising foreign policy, and especially war, the flag is almost the most effective way of doing so.
I was told- most strongly- that "My grandfather fought for the New Zealand flag. It symbolised freedom and democracy to him. You go to Afghanistan and tell me the New Zealand flag doesn't symbolise freedom and democracy!* If you brun the flag, youi're disrespecting my granfather and everything he fought for!'
I can't pinpoint why, but the argument "people fought and died for our flag, therefore it is sacred" holds very little water with me. For a start, New Zealanders were not fighting for the flag- they were fighting under it, and yes, having a flag is important in that sense as a symbol. Nevertheless, the flag itself does not stand for freedom, it does not mean freedom, nowhere on it does it say "yay for freedom!"** Therefore, all burning the flag does is criticise the country- and we must be free to criticise our country.
I also don't believe flag burning implies a lack of patriotism, or a lack of love for your country. Mind you I don't necessarily think patriotism is a good thing either- I mean, yes, to some degree, but then again, no.
So. What do y'all think?
*This last statement basically sent me apoplectic, coming as it did from a, well, an extreme conservative, put it that way. Like _she_ cares so much about liberation.
** Actually, I suppose some flags might have a symbol directly representing freedom on it. But I don't believe the New Zealand flag, at least, does so.
So here it is: What do you guys think of the right to burn or deface the flag of your country? I, personally, feel that it's both an important part of freedom of speech and also the right to simple freedom to protest against your government. To separate and raise up the flag as an untouchable item to me seems to imply that, as the flag is untouchable, so is our country- that to burn the flag means you hate your country, based on the idea that the flag symbolises freedom and democracy.
To me, that's not what the flag of a country symbolises. I understand that to some people, that is what the flag symbolises, along with all good things about their country and so forth- it's very important to them. However, no matter how you feel about the flag, factually that is not what the flag represents. What a flag represents is a country- not the state of life in the country, not the people of a country, just the simple name. If you make the flag a holy or venerated item, you do the same to your country- making it itself unable to be criticised.
The reason flag-burning is such an effective protest is because yes, it means a lot to people. I understand that. But we must be free, I believe, to criticise and protest the country in whatever non-violent ways we feel are most appropriate. When criticising foreign policy, and especially war, the flag is almost the most effective way of doing so.
I was told- most strongly- that "My grandfather fought for the New Zealand flag. It symbolised freedom and democracy to him. You go to Afghanistan and tell me the New Zealand flag doesn't symbolise freedom and democracy!* If you brun the flag, youi're disrespecting my granfather and everything he fought for!'
I can't pinpoint why, but the argument "people fought and died for our flag, therefore it is sacred" holds very little water with me. For a start, New Zealanders were not fighting for the flag- they were fighting under it, and yes, having a flag is important in that sense as a symbol. Nevertheless, the flag itself does not stand for freedom, it does not mean freedom, nowhere on it does it say "yay for freedom!"** Therefore, all burning the flag does is criticise the country- and we must be free to criticise our country.
I also don't believe flag burning implies a lack of patriotism, or a lack of love for your country. Mind you I don't necessarily think patriotism is a good thing either- I mean, yes, to some degree, but then again, no.
So. What do y'all think?
*This last statement basically sent me apoplectic, coming as it did from a, well, an extreme conservative, put it that way. Like _she_ cares so much about liberation.
** Actually, I suppose some flags might have a symbol directly representing freedom on it. But I don't believe the New Zealand flag, at least, does so.
