(no subject)

[labellementeuse]

Something that baffles and has kind of bugged me in fic: perfectly spelled words that are nevertheless not quite the word the author was going for. You know, things like "she would caught danger" or "he was unphased."

And I just realised tonight why this bugs and bemuses me in equal measure: the people using these words are using words they've learned from conversation. From actual speaking! This is AMAZING. I really mean that. I don't think I've ever heard a word in conversation that I hadn't already read. (I mean, obviously in the pre-reading days, but I don't remember them.) In fact I always had the reverse problem - I'd say a word and get a lot of laughs from the family (in fact, one of my parents' faaaavourite embarassing childhood memories was when I'd been reading a lot of Adrian Mole, and I asked them "am I mature for my age?" Only I said it MAcha, to rhyme with nature, you know? Which, by the way, makes PERFECT sense, seeing as how mature and nature are ONE letter apart. ONE. COME ON. English sucks.)

Anyway, my point is: I will be less annoyed by this in future, because I mispronounce words ALL the time and it would just be some hideous hypocrisy.

Comments

[ellipsisblack.livejournal.com]

This is called a malapropism (I think? Using a close but nonetheless incorrect word = malapropism). ;) They are fun, but certainly reveal people who a) have not much book larnin' and b) who don't really think about what makes sense. Heh.

This is the sort of thing any beta worth their salt would catch and gently correct. --;

Anyway, I go both ways. I remember I thought Armageddon was pronounced ar-MA*-je-don (*MA as in MAT) because I saw it first in print, and damnit, according to the rules of spelling, the single g and double d means it should by rights be pronounced like that. *tearful* Then, other words I'd hear first and then later read and go, "aaaaaaaaah that's that word!"

I have the kinds of parents who use big, pretentious words in everyday speech (hi Dad, looking at you), though, so I got as much of my vocab from them as from books, I guess?

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it is, although for some reason I feel like a malapropism is more self-aware, if you know what I mean. Malapropisms generally occur in conversation, where a wrong word is phonetically distinguishable. Whereas in this case, the writer has set out to write a word, has picked the word they wanted to write, and they've written it correctly. To all intents and purposes it's the right word, it's just not the right word. Someone who's only ever heard "I was fazed", and has never read it, can't possibly be expected to make it up correctly - why not use phased? Caught/court - courting danger is a metaphor, after all. Why not catch danger? Like a cold.

But yeah, malapropisms, blah de blah. (And sometimes they're just HIDEOUS - for example, I cannot DEAL with the misuse of discreet and discrete. CAN. NOT. Which is ridiculous because it could just be a typo! But still.) Anyway, my point was that I feel kind of uncomfortable blaming it on being uneducated (... which is kind of tacky anyway?) or thoughtless, since it's possible to think really hard about it and still be wrong. And also, they'd be perfectly justified in turning around and pointing out that I speak poorly.

My parents use big words about as much as is typical but my problem is really that I was (and still am) a VORACIOUS reader and spent significantly more time reading than talking (which... hmm, still do. I like it better that way.) It would be hard for me to hear a word before I read it (especially since written vocabularies are so much more flexible than spoken ones). So my spelling is fantastic and my pronunciation... sketchy! I try not to let it bother me but it's hard when my parents keep telling that anecdote :P

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

fazed is one I pick up a lot but my absolute number one favourite in all the written mediums I partake off is...

Drum roll...

'Siked'
Meaning, of course, Psyched as in psyched out or I'm psyched. Because its about psychology. I want to pronounce what they end up writing down as 'sickt'. At least. I reckon it should be Psyched. Hmmm.

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

Hee, an Off OF slipped in there :)

[amarynth.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I still want to pronounce awry "awe-ree" and misled "my-sild" even though I know they're wrong.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Hee, those are awesome! *high fives*

[kheha.livejournal.com]

*goes to look up correct pronunciation of awry*

:-/

[kheha.livejournal.com]

Oh, interesting. I actually do know it (from conversation, even!), and for some reason was confusing it with the meaning of eyrie, meh.

Fascinating. I've been thinking recently about how I'm still not sure whether it's "at their beckon call" (the version I've spent 15 years with in my head) or "at their beck and call" (which I'm willing to bet is actually right, since it seems more like an English idiom).

[eavanmoore.livejournal.com]

beck and call.

[amarynth.livejournal.com]

I've always been hobbled in my attempts to get it right that the incorrect pronunciation I've been using is much more evocative of the concept the word refers to than the correct one. If you see what I mean.

Glad to know I'm not alone in this.

[cactus-cat.livejournal.com]

I still have trouble saying "seneschal" out loud. ;)

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

sen-e-shall?

Hmmm. Never had to speak that one...

[cactus-cat.livejournal.com]

I went to say it after seeing The Cat Returns a few years ago, and suddenly realised it had never yet come up in conversation. Funnily enough. ;D

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

sen ess shal. I'm pretty sure.

[amarynth.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that's correct. It's a French word originally, so I've always used that as my pronunciation guide.

[kitsunerei88]

I used to pronounce conscience "con-sci-ence" because, err, there's "science" in it. And vegetable as "Ve-get-able." ^^

My sixth and seventh grade teacher used to rant at us "You don't write English properly because you don't speak English properly!"

And now I have her husband for my Classical Education course telling us "Canadians are very sloppy with their English. They pronounce Mary, merry and marry the same way! I don't!"

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I used to pronounce conscience "con-sci-ence" because, err, there's "science" in it.

This is a logic that I understand perfectly.

Blah blah, can't stand people talking about the supremacy of different accents, how RIDICULOUS. FWIW, I'm pretty sure Mary and merry are indistinguishable almost as often as not - telling them apart in the NZ accent, for example, can be very difficult (depending on who's speaking.)

[eavanmoore.livejournal.com]

That amazes me too!!

That mature-nature thing... I just read about that exact mistake... made by a French-English bilingual kid. You got it from reading, but that kid got it from (presumably) learning one accent pattern for English and another for French.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's really cool! :D

[chattycheese.livejournal.com]

My mother's favorite thing to make fun of me for is similar- when I was young, and reading Gone With the Wind, and came across the word asylum. Now, I knew what it meant, but had never seen it spelled, so I didn't make the connection. One day, when my mother was being silly and strange (as she is wont to do), I said "Mother, you belong in an asylum", but I pronounced it AS-lum, and she still thinks this is the funniest thing I've ever done. Every time we're in Boston, and we pass Asylum St., I get it good. *le sigh*

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOD, they just don't let it drop, do they? it KILLS me. Nngh.

[cactus-cat.livejournal.com]

Oh! And I just found out the other week that "shoe-in", which was how I'd always pictured it, was wrong. ;) Hugh told me. I always imagined it like getting a foot in the door, y'know?

[shoeless-girl.livejournal.com]

Dude - what is it, then?

[sixth-light.livejournal.com]

Google tells me that it's shoo-in. I would have given that spelling, if asked, but I had to look it up to be sure.

[cactus-cat.livejournal.com]

Shoo-in.

[amarynth.livejournal.com]

Like Hayley says, it's shoo in. In the sense that you're such a desirable candidate that they literally shoo you in through the door. No footwear involved.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I did know the correct way, but shoe-in is almost as good!

[lemony-purple.livejournal.com]

Oh man, is it weird that I find it hilarious and confusing when people other than me spell things phonetically to demonstrate "the regular pronunciation"? It's not just an accent thing; I'm always like "what, that's not how you say it" even if I have met them and it turns out we really say it exactly the same way: everyone does phonetic spellings differently, and I'm usually baffled. RANDOM.

But yes, I totally did that as a kid too, only considerably less because I would hardly ever say something if I wasn't sure how to say it. I can only really remember saying "debris" wrong; I said it how it looked and put the emphasis on the first syllable.

I was always terrified of being laughed at, and hardly ever used words I learned from books at all- I sort of dumbed down my speech so my parents wouldn't comment, or something like that. Once, when I was six or seven, my brother was looking at the newspaper comics over my shoulder, and I told him to stop "peering" over instead of "looking" or "reading". My parents did that thing adults do when they think kids are too little to understand that they're being talked about, and even if they weren't laughing, it felt like it, so I stopped. I kind of still do that sometimes; I think the last time I got that sort of reaction to a word was when I said "suppose" at twelve. I don't understand adults. :P

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Oh man, is it weird that I find it hilarious and confusing when people other than me spell things phonetically to demonstrate "the regular pronunciation"? It's not just an accent thing; I'm always like "what, that's not how you say it" even if I have met them and it turns out we really say it exactly the same way: everyone does phonetic spellings differently, and I'm usually baffled. RANDOM.

Well, that's what the IPA is for, right? I just dashed it off, but yeah, ordinary English is not very well equipped for phonetic spellings particularly because the ways we represent vowels and vowel combinations are just all ridiculous and confused, so if I say "MAcha" my "ma" could rhyme with "mama", "may", or "map."

But yes, I totally did that as a kid too, only considerably less because I would hardly ever say something if I wasn't sure how to say it. I can only really remember saying "debris" wrong; I said it how it looked and put the emphasis on the first syllable.

I totally get that! Like debra.

[ihatyou.livejournal.com]

A few weeks ago I was talking to my dad about shopping malls and he said he thought it would be interesting to know where the word mall came from, that it presumably means something to do with people coming together because in rugby they have them when...

I couldn't help cracking up not because it was particularly dumb but due to idea of malls being called mauls. I would never have made that sort of connection. Then again, I did think the phrase was shoe-in until half a minute ago.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I couldn't help cracking up not because it was particularly dumb but due to idea of malls being called mauls.

That's so inspired, seriously. :P

[amarynth.livejournal.com]

A favourite one to bring people up on is the pronounciation of 'debacle' as 'dee-bar-kill'.