(no subject)

[labellementeuse]

Hi y'all, I have a quick question.

We've been doing "Matilda" in English at the moment, which has been really fun. Some things people have suggested in terms of the kind of film/text it is is as a part of a kind of "children's noir" or "family black comedy", texts that are darker, more sophisticated, and much more intertextual than books or films for children are generally considered to be - children reading/watching these texts have some understanding of stereotype, parody, they understand the conventional storyline and they also understand when the conventional storyline is deliberately being twisted. A really good example of this is A Series of Unfortunate Events. The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents is another good one. I was wondering if anyone else had any examples? it's a really interesting idea and I'd like to look at it in more detail, maybe for an essay I'm writing.

Comments

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

Un Lundun looks like a good example of recent ones, the hero gets beaten early and the sidekick has to try and save the day.

I'm trying to find the title of an old book I read once where the prince had to collect egg cartons in order to make a cardboard dinosaur to win the princess, I think it kinda made fun of quest fantasy.

The Phantom Tollbooth is very reliant on all sorts of outside sources, though more of a straight quest.

Obviously you also have Coraline which is just scary.

Um... His Dark Materials? Are we getting older than you expected?


Its funny that you talk about Matilda as if its much more sophisticated than children's books are meant to be (expected to be?), cos I know you'd love it if people had that expectation of kid's books ;)

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

N.I.M.H.? Never actually read it, just seen the movie, but it certainly seems dark enough.

The Ending of The House at Pooh Corner pretty somber. What about Peter Pan?

Geez, I'm just trying to list every kids book I know. Do you have any more parameters??

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Yeah, HDM is much older than I was thinking, but it's also not really satirical, in fact I think it takes itself terribly seriously :P I mean, I love it, but. Coraline is a good example - I'd have to re-read The Phantom Tollbooth to really be sure, but I'm not sure if it's quite what I mean - it needs to be dark, but also a bit sort of... self-aware?

In re: sophistication, I don't mean sophisticated like the writng, I mean sophisticated in the sense that in some ways - especially the movie - depends on a knowledge of other texts. Like the movie has an additional subplot about the FBI, which is a total send-up - but it just wouldn't be funny if there wasn't the awareness of, like, cop shows.

Peter Pan, Pooh corner - um, probably not. :P

[angry-in-pink.livejournal.com]

Robin Jarvis' books are very dark, especially Deathscent, the Depthford Histories and Tales from the Wyrd Museum. Usually the 'goodies' win, but at a large personal cost.

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

Oooooh, I've only read one of those so far, they're awesome!

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I've read the Tales from the Wyrd Museum and really liked them. I'm not quite sure if they're what I mean though - they're very dark, but they're not so depended on broad awareness of other texts in the way I mean.

[anna-en-route.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm not too sure about the black humour but Patricia Wrede's dragon series certainly plays with the traditions.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I haven't read them! I should check them out.

[eavanmoore.livejournal.com]

The stories that come to mind for me probably fall less into the 'noir' category and more into the 'written earlier, so dark is more expected' category. They include E. Nesbit's The Railway Children and A Little Princess. Obviously they're also much more sentimental than Matilda and ASoUE.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I know they're not the light-hearted tales we see sometimes, but they're not really quite what I meant - I'm really thinking of a kind of developing genre, books and films for kids who have grown up watching The Simpsons, if you like.

[schiarire.livejournal.com]

Bruce Coville!

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Ooh, perfect! And, actually, Gillian Cross' The Demon Headmaster books, as well, and their TV series.

[senri.livejournal.com]

Diana Wynn Jones? Maybe a little older than you were thinking, but titles like Dark Lord of Derkholm are definitely send-offs of the stereotypical fantasy novel.

[eavanmoore.livejournal.com]

OMG. Witch Week. It's perfect.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Yes! I think that's much closer to what I mean! Thanks :D

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

DLoD is quite a good example, but I think it's also enough of a straight-up fantasy novel/book for older readers that I'm not quite sure about it. But DWJ's work in general definitely has that potential - material that expects more from its readers, more effort, more involvement, more awareness.

[senri.livejournal.com]

A-hah! Okays :) Part of the reason for mentioning DLoD was just that much of the humor, for me at least, would be lost if I hadn't read so much baaaad fantasy over time. Truefax that it's a story with a canon of its own, though.

Hmmm... Maybe some of Vivian Vande Velde's works? She has a couple books set in a universe where kids play immersive virtual reality video games and IMO there's a tongue-in-cheek sort of humor dedicated to poking a bit of fun at the videogame/rpg industry. Cross media, though, don't know if that's suitable.

[aimeesworld.livejournal.com]

Witch Week and Diana Wynne Jones in general plays off the stereotypes - like Millie/goddess of Asheth and her obsession with boarding school stories. Howl's Moving Castle and its play on fairy tales.
The Wee Free Men series has a lot of intertextuality and nods to a more mature audience from what I can recall.
A Wrinkle in Time has a lot of philosophical, metaphysical concepts in it, I don't know if that's the sort of thing you're thinking of.
This sounds like a fun class :)

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Hee, Millie & school stories! Heh.

I specifically didn't include WFM because I felt that it was much more straightforward than The Amazing Maurice. I possibly need to re-read it. I'm really thinking of stuff that expects a lot more, a broader, awareness from a still-young audience - Pratchett's work for adults, especially the City Watch and Death books, would fit there, but obviously those aren't children's books. Hm.

The class is only so-so, and this was a five-minute sideline, but I can't stop thinking about it! I'm intensely interested in it.