About that eskimo pie thing.

[labellementeuse]

So, in New Zealand we have a couple of long-standing sweets called Eskimos - a kind of lolly, and an icecream (they're not related to each other at all.) An Inuit woman visited NZ recently and pointed out that this was, you know, kind of OFFENSIVE. Naturally, everyone has responded to this with the usual PC GONE MAD!1! nonsense.

This is a pathetic response. For a start, if we had any other culture represented in a comestible, ffs - well, we wouldn't. Little chocolates called Maoris? Or - well, insert any ethnic group here. No. Not possible. Think about how ridiculous and offensive that sounds to you and then think about why your response is so different.

AND THEN, on top of that ridiculousness. Eskimo is a kind of complicated word. It refers to a range of indigenous peoples of the top of North America. Some of them don't have a problem with it (Alaskans, apparently.) Some of them feel that Eskimo is a pejorative (Canada, Greenland.) Some of them aren't sure. My point is that the associations with this word are kind of a linguistic nightmare. It's not like having a lolly called Maori. It's a bit more like having a lolly called Horis (an offensive word in New Zealand for Maori, somewhat akin to nigger, perhaps a little milder.)

My point? COME THE FUCK ON, CADBURY. Don't you already make the same stuff as Penguins, anyway? Ugh.

Comments

[trialia]

I don't know what the "Eskimo" sweets/ice-creams are, but I can tell just from that description that no, they're not the same thing as Penguins, and Penguins aren't made by Cadbury, at least not here. The closest thing you guys have to Penguins are Tim Tams, from what I know about them.

I do agree it's stupid to name a lolly or ice-cream or similar that, though. *blink*

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I don't know what you call penguins. Someone in New Zealand was, for a time, making a Penguin lolly that was identical in all ways except shape to the Eskimos and I believe it was still Cadbury (because penguins and eskimos were sold together in bulk bins for awhile.) I'm not sure if they're still manufacturing them, but my point was really that it's easy to explore alternate options.

[botrytis.livejournal.com]

I doubt that the name Eskimo Pie was a New Zealand invention:

Eskimo Pie is a brand name for a chocolate-covered vanilla ice cream bar wrapped in foil, the first such dessert sold in the United States. It is now marketed by Nestlé, owners of Dreyer's of the Western United States, and Edy's of the Eastern United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_Pie

Although admittedly I was suspecting a UK origin. I've always known Eskimo Pies, as, well, Eskimo Pies. I've never truncated them to 'Eskimo'.

Re: the reaction, well, guess what, those who are outraged are more likely to rage than those who think "eh." and people don't like being told they're in the wrong.

The lolly is a product of another era. Given how other lollies have changed (spaceman cigarettes, I'm looking at you) or vanished (sniff, snifters) ... I'm surprised that we still have them.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

It doesn't matter whether or not we invented them. The question here is about whether it's appropriate to continue selling them under that name in this country.

As to why they're still being sold (and for the record, you can still get snifters in the big bags, just not boxes) my guess is that it has to do with their presence in lolly cake.

[dazyndara.livejournal.com]

You can still get snifters?! From where? How much? (I have a friend who has spent lots buying them by the bag on trademe...)

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

AFAIK... everywhere? But maybe I'm thinking of jaffas :-/

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

God, sorry, I am spamming your LJ. Lolly cake can *totally* be made sans eskimo lollies! We always used those hard marshmallow lolly things that are roundish and flat on the bottom.

Ew, the concept of chopping up Eskimos to put them in cake is exceptionally wrong.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Spam away, that's what it's here for...

I'm not commenting on your freakish lolly cake practises (;)) but: yup, "chopping up Eskimos to put them in cake" = wow, that sounds AWFUL.

[amarynth.livejournal.com]

For a start, if we had any other culture represented in a comestible, ffs - well, we wouldn't.

Afghan biscuits?

I also think that, while you're correct about attitudes to the word 'Eskimo' vary, I don't think they split as neatly along national borders as you've identified.

The word is Mohican, I think, and it means 'raw fish eater'.

As an aside, I've never heard of Eskimos myself.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I forgot about afghans (yum). Hmm. Apparently derivation of the name is unknown.

The word is Mohican, I think, and it means 'raw fish eater'.

Pretty sure that's a myth.

Re: borders. You're right, I'm sure, but I don't know that it's all that productive for me to go into the whys and wherefores (which as I understand it has a lot to do with the distribution of different indigenous peoples across the top of Nth America.)

[amarynth.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've done a bit more research and apparently that is a myth, although I think it may be a myth partly perpetuated by the 'Eskimos' themselves in order to get the name de-applied to them... certainly I've only heard it from people sympathetic to the idea that 'Eskimo' is not the correct word.

So... at the risk of appearing nit-picky, what is your position on Afghan biscuits? (The name, not the taste!)

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's interesting!

I'm happy to rename them. Crunchy chocolate conrflaky things! OK, obviously I won't be the one to rename them...

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

In the Afghan case, it seems like it is describing a style or location that describes the biscuit rather then claiming to eat a culture. Whereas the Eskimos are shaped liked eskimos and don't describe a style of lolly that originated there.

If you can follow me.

Depending where the biscuits come from,

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

Actual fact: my bff's ex is Afghan and he found the whole concept of the Afghan biscuit hilariously funny. He used the term "Afghan" not "Afghani" to describe himself and his culture, and I never heard the word "Afghani" till 9/11.

Their daughter has been bullied via the ostentatious eating of Afghan biscuits and "oh look I am eating an Afghan". She, however, has pointed out to said bullies that the Afghans she is eating are not real ones since they lack the walnut.

I know I feel more weird about Afghan biscuits due to knowing actual Afghans.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Their daughter has been bullied via the ostentatious eating of Afghan biscuits and "oh look I am eating an Afghan".

That this happens makes me think there's enough reason to at least *want* to change it. I love to bake those biscuits and the idea that children could be hurt like this out of them makes me feel kinda sick.

I know I feel more weird about Afghan biscuits due to knowing actual Afghans.

Yeah, I really feel that this is the issue. Culturally we don't "know" Inuit in Aotearoa - even in as basic a way as we know Aussie indigenous peoples. So we don't recognise this as an issue. (I think Afghan, although much more difficult to change because of not being and brand but a baked good, is likely to have more impetus to change because there are surely going to be more Afghani immigrants than Inuit ones in the next few years.)

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

I think some recuperation can be done by calling them Afghan biscuits rather than afghans. After all, we eat Anzac biscuits, not Anzacs.(Broken bodies of boys far from home and never to return, om nom nom!) The difficulty remains then only in why they are called Afghan biscuits in the first place, since, unlike Afghan rugs, Afghans don't make them.

Proper Afghan biscuits should not be lost to the world. Those horrible ones you get from shops that are just like hardish round things covered in melted chocolate do not deserve the name.

FWIW, child in question gets hassle for "difference" all the time and unfortunately I don't think it is *ever* going away. Even well-meaning stuff hurts - "where are you from", "how come you can speak English without an accent", "why don't you wear a scarf", etc etc. The eating of biscuits is nothing to when a friend of her mother's opined that "we should bomb the lot of them" after 9/11. She was eight then.

I tell you, having a different ethnicity quasi-niece has opened my eyes a LOT.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

*here via friendsfriends*

This is all completely valid of course, but what nobody has yet mentioned in this piece of international embarrassment is that Eskimos (the lolly variety) *are repulsive horrible things that taste like ADD-infested sawdust*.

It may be that my willingness to go "oh! God, but of course! I never thought of that! They should totally get rid of Eskimo lollies for ever and ever" is supported somewhat by my lifelong hatred of the things.

Eskimo pies, OTOH, I feel a tiny pang of sorrow at the demise of them and their smiling fur-hooded Inuit caricatures.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Excuse me, the lollies are DELICIOUS. Well. Once every three months I eat a whole packet, anyway.

Eskimo pies, OTOH, I feel a tiny pang of sorrow at the demise of them and their smiling fur-hooded Inuit caricatures.

*snort*

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

I was the kid who spent their 20 cents on one chocolate bar while my friends bought 20c mixtures full of Eskimos and Milk Bottles. Blech.