HBP SPOILERS

[labellementeuse]

I have totally read it. XD XD XD XD


Um, so thoughts, loosely sorted, not particularly thoughtful.. :P

The book as a whole

Simply, I think this was very much a return to the pre-OotP books. Or, perhaps, I think that fandom interpreted OotP radically differently, and it will need to be dramatically reconsidered in context of the series.

Okay, okay, I totally, totally loved it. Way more than OotP. OMG. *squees a bit cheerfully* I thought the pacing was really excellent, actually, it didn't drag at all- it's a slimmer book than OotP and I actually think it's better for it.

How I think the fandom's going to take it... well, I don't know, really. I'm surprised at how little interHouse dialogue and action was shown; surprised, and disappointed, because I really thought they had a good thing going with the DA and I'm sad that that's been lost, that the spirit of interHouse unity has been lost with the aforementioned return, stylistically and content-wise, to the earlier books. Actually, along with that, we also lost our perspective of the Wizarding World outside Hogwarts in many ways- although I loved the bits with Rufus and Harry, and with the Muggle Prime Minister. :P

Also, sadly, I think we've kind of lost some of the complex characterisation... Snape (on whom, more later) was in many ways the most complex character and, clearly, that has been totally lost.

Harry through the book was a lot happier, which I'm really pleased about.

I thought there were some really accurate representations of social interactions between teenagers- not just shippingwise, but in general.

I liked most- all- of the introduced characters.

I wish we'd seen a little more of Minerva McGonagall.

Overall? It was a real delight to read, and not just because I've been waiting so long...

Major Plot Points/Events

SNAPE. EVIL? OMG WTF BBQ *BLOWN AWAY*.
I really didn't see that coming.
Yeah.
um.
I don't think I can really verbalise my feelings about this, except I am really incredibly surprised and impressed that she managed to pull this off- I am disappointed in that it means we've kind of lost the idea that there can be unpleasant people on the Side of Good, but I don't want to gfive the impression that I didn't love this book, and even this twist, because I do. Hooboy.
Also him teaching DADA! Which should have been our big clue that he was evil (if he really is... I'd like to hold out hope for his redemption but...) It's ALWAYS the DADA teacher.


The memories/Horcruxes (sp? it's upstairs) thing was really cool. And interesting when you consider this has been in the background of the whole series, that she knew this way back when she was writing Chamber.

Dumbledore's death... really sad, yes, but also fulfilling. I really liked the relationship between Harry and Dumbledore in this book. I really liked Dumbledore as well, which I never really have before- sixth_light suggests that in many ways this book is profoundly about Dumbledore making mistakes and being made human, and yet I find that at the end of this book I admire and respect Dumbledore much more than I did at the end of all the other ones, and not because of his death.

Weren't we supposed to find out something startling about Lily? Because we, like, totally didn't.

Shipping

Harry/Ginny: Totally awesome! I'm a convert. ^^ I was surprised at hot quickly it went but I thought it was quite an accurate surface portrayal of being a teenager.

Ron/Hermione: YEAH! XD I thought this was adorable Even the Ron/Lavender. I confess I'm a little surprised we didn't have even a snog by the end of the book, but oh well. I really liked "I was going to ask you to the Christmas Party but I can ask (x person, I forget) if you'd prefer!" "No, I wouldn't." [said Ron quietly]

Remus/Tonks... *sigh* I saw it coming from at least half-way through the book, so at least I was prepared (the big tipoff, for me, was the bit where Harry sees Tonks and she's like "Have you heard from any of the Order?" and he's like "No" and she's like "omg my life is over." I think this happens just before or after Remus mentions he hasn't been able to write because he's been underground. I thought that was fairly obvious so I'm surprised Lucy didn't pick it; she reckoned it came as a (pleasant, for her) bolt from the blue at the end.)

So I'm not totally happy about this, because I just do not like Remus/Tonks. I'm sorry, to me it smacks of- heh, new word- a very heterosexist worldview whereby characters achieve happiness only through a heterosexual relationship. This is not just a consequence of my shipping Remus/Sirius, I will add. It reminds me a lot of A Merchant of Venice although this may be helped along by the fact that my course reader for the Shakespeare course has a whole essay on reading TMOV with a non-heterosexist viewpoint, and the consequences of heterosexist direction.

I really liked Harry making friends with Luna! :) I hope we see more of Luna and Neville.


Finally: I liked the conclusion, because I like Harry depending on Ron and Hermione. I hope Luna, Neville and of course Ginny also help Harry Defeat Voldemort (tm). I am not a huge fan of the lone hero.


I finished it ten minutes after it went on sale in teh States. Heh.

Comments

[sarahgeek.livejournal.com]

It was good, wasn't it?

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

YES.

[shoeless-girl.livejournal.com]

Luna love! Quidditch Luna! Eyebrow Luna! I hope to see a lot more of Luna and Neville in the next book too - they're neat characters.

I have to admit to not much liking the Harry/Ginny even though I ship it. It just felt really sudden. The Ron/Hermione was so cute though! Even if it's still not quite realised and they were so horrible to each other.

I really liked the idea of the horcruxes. Am looking forward to reading more about them.

I'm probably going to delete this icon tonight, so I think I'll use it one last time *weeps*

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

They are.

Hmm, well, as I say, I become converted- I can see how it was a little rushed, certainly in comparision to Ron and Hermione, or Harry and Cho- but then, Harry was crushing on Cho in second year or something ridiculous like that...

Aw. *pets icon* Yeah, it isn't really all that appropriate, is it?

I want to go look on Snape fansites/communities and see the mourning. *evil*

[miriamus.livejournal.com]

:|



How do you read that in ONE DAY?? The last one took me about two weeks.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Oh, you know. *looks modest*

Actually, reading is my, like, only talent. My one true calling. :P

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

chapter 1 comments (http://www.livejournal.com/users/rich_teaboy/31897.html#cutid1) apparantly he goes on to do chapter by chapter.

Photos from the queue (http://www.livejournal.com/users/allah_sulu/365474.html?#cutid1)

[gioiaverdi.livejournal.com]

Snape's not evil. You'll never get me to believe it. There is a deep game here being played here. Dumbledore was asking Snape to kill him (Dumbledore plead for his life? No *way*). It'll be to do with the redemption of Draco, the consequences of what would happen if Draco succceeded or failed. Note: Snape ued Avada cadavra, which is instant - where I'm quite sure any of the Death Eaters would have used crucio. Plus, at no time did Snape go on the offensive with Harry, he just blocked him.

I *like* the Remus/Tonks ship. It's a kids book, so is almost bound to be heterosexist, and it's a good combination of characters. Didn't like Ginny/Harry - far too predictable, wanted Harry/Luna. Yeah, Ginny's cool, but it's just too neat. Ron and Hermione is fun, loved the Lavender section, especially the necklace.

Frustrated by the ending, but less so now I've figured who R.A.B. is (95% sure, anyway)

[vardaman.livejournal.com]

and who is r.a.b?

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

:P I really hope you're right, but I can't believe it, you know? :P

Dumbledore plead for his life? No *way*
This is probably the most convincing piece of evidence I've heard against Snape being evil. But... well, he was weakened by that potion. I can see Dumbledore pleading, not for Snape not to kill him, but for Snape not to be Evil, you know?

Or to take care of Draco, I suppose. :-/

Note: Snape ued Avada cadavra, which is instant - where I'm quite sure any of the Death Eaters would have used crucio.
I disagree. Crucio, for a start, doesn't kill, and obviously the whole idea was to kill Dumbledore before help arrived- remember, they're scared of Dumbledore. Snape would be, too, if he was evil.

I *like* the Remus/Tonks ship. It's a kids book, so is almost bound to be heterosexist
Bull. There is nothing that says at the end of a children's book all the adult characters have to be in a romantic relationship, that is only a consequence of our attitudes in society and also in fantasy fiction. Sure, most kids' books are heterosexist; but I don't consider that, generally, to be an excuse. And, actually, sure, they may be heterosexist but not to this extent.

it's a good combination of characters
Ew, no, it's not. *shudders*

Harry/Luna might have been cute, but I like Harry/Ginny as well.

Stranger coming here to cathart.

[vardaman.livejournal.com]

Annoyed, annoyed annoyed. The whole thing drifts unreally from month to month. Harry bumbles around having meaningful chats with everybody. Nothing of any real surprise or import happens, until - oh - ANOTHER thing that was brought up and disposed of in book 1 is recylced. Boring annoyed sleep-depriving pissed off irritated. I mean, does she think we pay no attention at all to the fact that we are reading this, and that we are doing so in the context of all the other books? There was no narrative, no real mystery, just a lot of reminiscing and C-grade whodunnit material. Nothing was explained, I could go on. We were treated like idiots in a theoretical physics department ("no, I can't explain that, your head isn't big enough")

Re: Stranger coming here to cathart.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

*amused* I can appreciate you disliking it, but I personally loved it.

I also thought it was really well-paced and didn't drift at all. I'll concede the fact that it didn't really have a huge important plot, but on the other hand- considering that yes, we are reading it in context- it probably has a lot of very important purposes in terms of setting up for book Seven.

ANOTHER thing that was brought up and disposed of in book 1 is recylced.

Um, which one?

Anyway. I loved it. So there. :P

[chattycheese.livejournal.com]

yeah, upon second reading (yes, i read it TWICE) I picked up on the whole R.A.B thingus. (The first reading was solely for plot, then I needed to go back through and pick up on all the non-plot-essential sutffe i kinda glossed over).

aaaugh!!!! Snape! ::dies as OTP crumbles:: well, I did think that it might be him, but WOAH. Talk about a turncoat. ::sniffs::

vv

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Hah, I didn't gloss at all. I only read it once, but I'm re-reading bits as I go. This is why you should do a (relatively) slow read first. :P

OTP? What was it?

*snickering at icon*

[gabbysun.livejournal.com]

The first thing I thought when I put down the book was:

AND THE SHIPPERS GO CRAZY

And the entire time I was seeing just little throwaway remarks and actions that I immediately seized upon as shipping proof—any pairing—and I blame the fandom entirely.

I actually shipped Lupin/Tonks for a pretty long time, so when I saw it I was a bit *OMGGLEEE* but it was a bit disappointing because it just comes in out of nowhere. I mean . . . where were the hints, the subtlety? Just POW there you go and that sort of sucked. But I think I'll enjoy the inevitable masses of fic that elaborates, so yay! I was surprised that the long foretold R/Hr didn't happen—I mean, it sort of did, but not really. (Sirius/Tonks was . . . man, Harry. MAN. I was so terrified that it'd come true, too.)

I don't know, the book felt sort of empty to me. Maybe because it's the sixth in a series of seven? I think it felt rushed, yes. I think if it had been a little longer, so much more could have been fleshed out. I'm probably spoiled by having read Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell just earlier (WHICH IS DETAIL LIEK WHOA). (I totally thought R.A.B. = Regulus Black. Fandom has ruined me. I am not proud.)

Personally, I think Snape is good and Dumbledore was asking him to put him out of his misery. Hey, it could happen! It’s the type of thing that would throw an unsuspecting reader for a loop. And I never suspected for a second that he was the HBP. Seriously, who knew?

See now, all's I'm saying is that JK better have one heck of a seventh book to wrap all of this stuff up. And also maybe release a little handbook after that of all the details she didn't elaborate on.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

And the entire time I was seeing just little throwaway remarks and actions that I immediately seized upon as shipping proof—any pairing—and I blame the fandom entirely.

*nods* I... did the same.

I mean . . . where were the hints, the subtlety? Just POW there you go and that sort of sucked. But I think I'll enjoy the inevitable masses of fic that elaborates, so yay! I was surprised that the long foretold R/Hr didn't happen—I mean, it sort of did, but not really. (Sirius/Tonks was . . . man, Harry. MAN. I was so terrified that it'd come true, too.)

I thought there were a few hints in there, actually, it's just that we hardly ever saw either of them and... yeah, there might have been more hints in the original manuscript that got cut, or something.

Sirius/Tonks: I can't believe you thought Harry might be right. :P he sure did get smarter this book, but... just, not. :P

Funnily, I actually thought it was better concise... less lumbering and faffing around.

Snape: I think I'm going to stop saying either way, because I keep hearing all this spec from both sides and it's just like... omg I have no idea anymore. Probably, on the balance, I'd rather think Snape was evil and be wrong than think Snape was good and be wrong. So I'll try to convince myself of that and... we'll see.

Yeah, true. XD

[disturbed-kiwi.livejournal.com]

Strange et Norrell is beauty.

One day. I'll reread it.

[euhoecowboy.livejournal.com]

I feel sick with myself. I kept reading in stints which saw me finish it round 3am this morning. I...couldn't stop reading. Urgh, I'm not that much of a fan. Never again...

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

hahahah, HP overdose!

[gioiaverdi.livejournal.com]

It's ALWAYS the DADA teacher

Not quite... wasn't Remus.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Remus was special. :P

Also, in a way it sort of was- well, there was a Big Mystery about him and so forth.

[insane-ophelia.livejournal.com]

I like it more than OotP, but less than GoF and a LOT less than PoA. The problem for me lies in when characters die that I deeply care about. All the R/T shippers will be going crazy. This was a huge huge mistake. Monumental. And like you say it's not because I'm a R/S shipper, it's because the readers know nothing about their relationship or its development. It doesn't make sense.

I agree with you about Snape. I'm depressed that the divide between good people and evil people has been underscored by his true loyalties. It annoys me that the most interesting and complex character has turned out to be superficial. I realise that this makes us painfully aware of Dumbledore's mistake, but it upsets me that now no evil character has redeemed themselves and that their is no chance for us to question the nature of good and evil within the context of the books. I think this is a major shortcoming - I don't believe that shuch distinctions can be as clear cut as JKR makes them.

I'm also confused as to why Sirius' death has been pushed to the side - I don't think Harry's dealt with it fully. When we left him in OotP he was still angry - RAGE RAGE and all that jazz. That's not how you get over a death.

It amuses me how many millions of children will now have learnt the word slut. :DDDD

And Dumbledore. Woe is me. I'm not as upset as I was when Sirius died though. But I'm pretty fucking upset.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Go to throughadoor and read the second post down, it's like a work of genius & says everything.

I was actually kind of creeped out by the use of the word slut. *uncomfortable* Gender politics and all...

Aw. *pets* See, I just... don't care... :P

[insane-ophelia.livejournal.com]

AND AND and - shouldn't the plural of Inferius be Inferii? I swear it should be - the only reason I think that they might have changed it is because double i endings are difficult to pronounce

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it should, and I think you're probably right. Inferi actually looks nicer on the page, though.

[dragonwire.livejournal.com]

I typed out a three-page reply and realized posting it here would be sad. And bad. So here:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dragonwire/4686.html

We did find something out about Lily, at least.

[thespice.livejournal.com]

She was very, very good at potions. And I find it interesting that aside from the "Mudblood" comment in Snape's pensieve, he's not said a word against her to Harry, has he? It's always been about James and Sirius. I do think that's significant somehow, and maybe will play into the 7th book.

Re: We did find something out about Lily, at least.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yeah, but... I just don't feel that's particularly significant. :P I mean, certainly it's interesting, but surprising? Important? Not... really.

You could be right. The Snape + Lily dynamic is kind of interesting.

[gooseberry107.livejournal.com]

Well.

Wow.

Snape: I really, really, really don't know. Having him be evil just seems...too easy. I mean, after all of this? And the reason given for why Dumbledore trusted Snape at all just doesn't really seem to...I don't know, cover all the bases. It's not enough for Dumbledore to trust a former? Death Eater just because he said he was sorry for bringing information that lead to the deaths of James and Lily.

Dumbledore: I've thought for a long time that he was bound to die, but I NEVER guessed it would come in Book Six. Never. And not the way that it did. I still don't know what to think. And I'm wondering why Harry isn't experiencing the mental torment that he did when Sirius died (and I agree with whoever said that he was over Sirius's death too quickly). Blaming himself and all that. And seeing as much of him as we did in this book was very strange: Dumbledore has always seemed like the untouchable, imperturbable, faultless (although we learned at the end of Book Five that this last is not true), eternal presence. And some of the things that he said, especially pressuring Harry in the way that he did to get the memory from Slughorn, honestly made me wonder if he was being impersonated and if we were going to see some recurrence of his favorite flavor of jam (raspberry). But....I dunno. I need to reread.

Ships:
Remus/Tonks: I personally had never thought about this one before, and I have to say I think it's cute. The unexpectedness of it didn't bother me because you could tell that it had been building, out of the reader's sight, for awhile. That leads me to my problem with the next ship...

Harry/Ginny: I don't mind Harry/Ginny, but I really don't like the way it was put forward here. The buildup to it was alright, but it was very un-J.K., IMO, that we didn't get any details of their relationship. Nothing on how Harry felt about Ginny after they got together. No scenes with the two of them alone. Then at the end there's this--supposedly tearjerking?--scene where he tells her they can't be together. There's no heartbreak there for me, because I don't even know what being together was like for them.

Ron/Hermione: I love how no one seems to know whether it has "happened" or not. This is my primary ship and the only one I really care about, and I think, for all intents and purposes, we can say it did happen. We didn't see them kiss or read anything about "official" but Ron holding her at the end seemed to be a confirmation. My sister walked into my room when I had just read the first use of "Won-Won" to hear me muttering dark threats to Lavender Brown. :-D

Overall: Near the end the book became kind of surreal. The plot, obviously, didn't have the magnitude that events have had in recent books, but that's okay seeing as the real climax of the series and of the whole overarching story will take place in Book Seven. I felt that parts of the book were rushed and could have used more description and detail. I'm still not sure what I think about Snape. I don't like the idea of Harry not being at Hogwarts, and us not getting all the good constants that come along with that: House rivalry, Quidditch, teachers, classes, Peeves, the ghosts, school in general.

A favorite line: "I am a wizard, not a baboon brandishing a stick."

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I wanted to reply to this but I kept putting it off and putting it off and I'm prolly not going to get round to it now, but I read it & enjoyed your comment. :P

I hate when I leave a really long comment and it gets ignored, so I just wanted to say.