(no subject)
Jun. 18th, 2006 01:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
labellementeuseSo I was thinking about Bechdel's law earlier. In a comic strip by Alison Bechdel, a character explains that she only watches a movie if it
"one, it has to have at least two women in it, who
two, talk to each other about,
three, something besides a man."
And then I was thinking about Firefly, as you do, and I was thinking... does Firefly ever meet the standard? Even in Inara's lesbian sex scene they talk about men. Inara and Kaylee have conversations - about Mal, or occasionally Simon. Does Zoe ever converse alone with anyone other than Mal or Wash? And then I was thinking about Angel, and I'm pretty sure that fails in almost every episode (many of them right at the first step.) And then I was thinking about Buffy, and then I got depressed, because I have a sinking feeling that even Buffy the Vampire Slayer wouldn't meet the standard more than 50% of the time.
Dear f-list, please tell me I am wrong and give me evidence?
Also! Fandom questions!
Do you regret taking on a [info]fanfic100 table? Does it bore you? Do you forget it? Do you have a tingling sense that you *should* write for your prompts and not do it?
I don't regret it, because I'm still fiddling around with bits and bobs that wil eventually be published. It doesn't bore me because no-one's making me do it; I do occasionally forget it because I'm so damn busy at uni, and I do get tingling guilty moments every now and then. I'm glad I took it on, though, because even though it's a big challenge, it's good for me. :)
Can I directly blame *you* for getting me my first table and the fact that I've followed up with an encore of 306 active prompts?
No! Because I told you not to and everything! I am completely innocent of all blame! :D
Uh....how do you feel about Simon/River as a ship? Complete squick, that-sort-of-works-with-canon-but-no, or they're-so-fucked-up-of-course-they-are?
Hnn. Remember those conversations we've been having about fandom breaking squicks? Right. Well, Simon/River doesn't make me want to throw up in my mouth any more (although it sort of did squick me the first time I thought about it.) As it stands now, I understand why people 'ship it (especially with some of those deleted scenes) and it does sort of work with canon, and I'm not totally devoted to any other Simon or River 'ships so it doesn't bother me too much, but it doesn't really appeal to me all that much, either.
They're still pretty damn fucked up, though, which is why it in some ways works for me.
And, bonus question: writing, first person or third person?
Ah... original fiction and poetry sometimes first; fanfic, NEVER in first person. Ever. I can't even read fanfic in first person, that's how much I hate it. I do like second person sometimes though.
If you ship Rose/Doctor at all, which is the more OTPish ship--Rose/Nine or Rose/Ten?
Definitely Rose/Nine. I enjoy Rose/Ten well enough, but I really deeply believed in Rose/Nine. He was so damaged and needy and he kind of fixated on Rose, whereas Ten is more his own person and he's way more aloof from Rose, which does not OTPishness make.
"one, it has to have at least two women in it, who
two, talk to each other about,
three, something besides a man."
And then I was thinking about Firefly, as you do, and I was thinking... does Firefly ever meet the standard? Even in Inara's lesbian sex scene they talk about men. Inara and Kaylee have conversations - about Mal, or occasionally Simon. Does Zoe ever converse alone with anyone other than Mal or Wash? And then I was thinking about Angel, and I'm pretty sure that fails in almost every episode (many of them right at the first step.) And then I was thinking about Buffy, and then I got depressed, because I have a sinking feeling that even Buffy the Vampire Slayer wouldn't meet the standard more than 50% of the time.
Dear f-list, please tell me I am wrong and give me evidence?
Also! Fandom questions!
Do you regret taking on a [info]fanfic100 table? Does it bore you? Do you forget it? Do you have a tingling sense that you *should* write for your prompts and not do it?
I don't regret it, because I'm still fiddling around with bits and bobs that wil eventually be published. It doesn't bore me because no-one's making me do it; I do occasionally forget it because I'm so damn busy at uni, and I do get tingling guilty moments every now and then. I'm glad I took it on, though, because even though it's a big challenge, it's good for me. :)
Can I directly blame *you* for getting me my first table and the fact that I've followed up with an encore of 306 active prompts?
No! Because I told you not to and everything! I am completely innocent of all blame! :D
Uh....how do you feel about Simon/River as a ship? Complete squick, that-sort-of-works-with-canon-but-no, or they're-so-fucked-up-of-course-they-are?
Hnn. Remember those conversations we've been having about fandom breaking squicks? Right. Well, Simon/River doesn't make me want to throw up in my mouth any more (although it sort of did squick me the first time I thought about it.) As it stands now, I understand why people 'ship it (especially with some of those deleted scenes) and it does sort of work with canon, and I'm not totally devoted to any other Simon or River 'ships so it doesn't bother me too much, but it doesn't really appeal to me all that much, either.
They're still pretty damn fucked up, though, which is why it in some ways works for me.
And, bonus question: writing, first person or third person?
Ah... original fiction and poetry sometimes first; fanfic, NEVER in first person. Ever. I can't even read fanfic in first person, that's how much I hate it. I do like second person sometimes though.
If you ship Rose/Doctor at all, which is the more OTPish ship--Rose/Nine or Rose/Ten?
Definitely Rose/Nine. I enjoy Rose/Ten well enough, but I really deeply believed in Rose/Nine. He was so damaged and needy and he kind of fixated on Rose, whereas Ten is more his own person and he's way more aloof from Rose, which does not OTPishness make.
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no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 04:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 04:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 05:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 06:16 am (UTC)Every time a woman buys into the notion of feminism as the province of hairy-legged angry lesbians, she buys into a notion men have succeeding in spreading, propagating the idea of feminism as something to be ashamed of. Relatedly, there's nothing wrong with being angry about injustice; women just aren't supposed to get angry. Well fuck that: if I want to be pissed off and confrontational I will be, and it shouldn't reflect on me as a woman.
For a more coherent discussion of this, I highly recommend this essay: In Defense of Bitterness (http://heocwaeth.blogspot.com/2006/01/in-defense-of-bitterness.html).
no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 07:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 07:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 07:58 am (UTC)Relatedly, I don't know about anyone else but I have a problem with calling wanting sexual equality "feminism" simply because the word implies it's only about women. Granted, originally it was, but now society's at a stage where we have to start dealing with situations where men are at a disadvantage-things like boys' underachievement at school, men's lower life expectancy, men being stereotyped as child molesters etc, as well as the fields where women are disadvantaged. It needs a new name!
no subject
Date: 2006-06-19 02:54 am (UTC)Boys underachieving at school will be a problem when and if school becomes anything more than a prison that strives to turn children into status symbols or slaves for powerful men.
Men's lower life expectancy is a sign of over-success. Historically, men secured the lion's share of the luxuries of a household (fat, sugar, alcohol, tobacco, transport) and thus enjoyed a higher standard of living. Today, too much fat, sugar and alcohol and the view that private transport is a right and a pleasure are rather likely to kill you. About the only thing that men are getting right these days is smoking.
Stereotypes of men as child molesters and abusers exist for a reason. The problem really isn't the wariness, it's the demonisation of people who have these problems. Rather than treat with child abusers as the victims of patriarchal society that they undoubtedly are, the patriarchs turn them into perverts who are just "wrong" (if they're caught; until then they're model citizens), because society must be right.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-20 08:00 pm (UTC)And historically education has been extremely male-focused; in fact, there is still unconscious discrimination in most education systems (including our own.) The fact that girls are now doing better says something about girls, and about boys, but it's not a problem of sexism in the system.
The problem really isn't the wariness, it's the demonisation of people who have these problems.
I can't agree more. Society's unwillingness to take responsibility for rapists and child abusers, and the preferred tactic of separating them from humanity, is useless to the victims and it's useless to solving the problem. Until we accept that they are part of society, and society can do something to change them, we won't see any real change. It's very frustrating, because as soon as society admits they can do something to change the "others", they have to admit that they are partially responsible, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
And I do think that is related to the patriarchy, because men don't want to take responsibility for the actions of other men; not that women don't participate in society's abdication of responsibility en masse, because they do.
I feel sorry for men who teach primary school and kindergarten, though.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 10:19 am (UTC)Amen, sistuh. ;)
Sorry I don't have anything more eloquent to say on that...but yeah, totally agree. :P
no subject
Date: 2006-06-18 07:10 pm (UTC)