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Jun. 18th, 2006 01:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
labellementeuseSo I was thinking about Bechdel's law earlier. In a comic strip by Alison Bechdel, a character explains that she only watches a movie if it
"one, it has to have at least two women in it, who
two, talk to each other about,
three, something besides a man."
And then I was thinking about Firefly, as you do, and I was thinking... does Firefly ever meet the standard? Even in Inara's lesbian sex scene they talk about men. Inara and Kaylee have conversations - about Mal, or occasionally Simon. Does Zoe ever converse alone with anyone other than Mal or Wash? And then I was thinking about Angel, and I'm pretty sure that fails in almost every episode (many of them right at the first step.) And then I was thinking about Buffy, and then I got depressed, because I have a sinking feeling that even Buffy the Vampire Slayer wouldn't meet the standard more than 50% of the time.
Dear f-list, please tell me I am wrong and give me evidence?
Also! Fandom questions!
Do you regret taking on a [info]fanfic100 table? Does it bore you? Do you forget it? Do you have a tingling sense that you *should* write for your prompts and not do it?
I don't regret it, because I'm still fiddling around with bits and bobs that wil eventually be published. It doesn't bore me because no-one's making me do it; I do occasionally forget it because I'm so damn busy at uni, and I do get tingling guilty moments every now and then. I'm glad I took it on, though, because even though it's a big challenge, it's good for me. :)
Can I directly blame *you* for getting me my first table and the fact that I've followed up with an encore of 306 active prompts?
No! Because I told you not to and everything! I am completely innocent of all blame! :D
Uh....how do you feel about Simon/River as a ship? Complete squick, that-sort-of-works-with-canon-but-no, or they're-so-fucked-up-of-course-they-are?
Hnn. Remember those conversations we've been having about fandom breaking squicks? Right. Well, Simon/River doesn't make me want to throw up in my mouth any more (although it sort of did squick me the first time I thought about it.) As it stands now, I understand why people 'ship it (especially with some of those deleted scenes) and it does sort of work with canon, and I'm not totally devoted to any other Simon or River 'ships so it doesn't bother me too much, but it doesn't really appeal to me all that much, either.
They're still pretty damn fucked up, though, which is why it in some ways works for me.
And, bonus question: writing, first person or third person?
Ah... original fiction and poetry sometimes first; fanfic, NEVER in first person. Ever. I can't even read fanfic in first person, that's how much I hate it. I do like second person sometimes though.
If you ship Rose/Doctor at all, which is the more OTPish ship--Rose/Nine or Rose/Ten?
Definitely Rose/Nine. I enjoy Rose/Ten well enough, but I really deeply believed in Rose/Nine. He was so damaged and needy and he kind of fixated on Rose, whereas Ten is more his own person and he's way more aloof from Rose, which does not OTPishness make.
"one, it has to have at least two women in it, who
two, talk to each other about,
three, something besides a man."
And then I was thinking about Firefly, as you do, and I was thinking... does Firefly ever meet the standard? Even in Inara's lesbian sex scene they talk about men. Inara and Kaylee have conversations - about Mal, or occasionally Simon. Does Zoe ever converse alone with anyone other than Mal or Wash? And then I was thinking about Angel, and I'm pretty sure that fails in almost every episode (many of them right at the first step.) And then I was thinking about Buffy, and then I got depressed, because I have a sinking feeling that even Buffy the Vampire Slayer wouldn't meet the standard more than 50% of the time.
Dear f-list, please tell me I am wrong and give me evidence?
Also! Fandom questions!
Do you regret taking on a [info]fanfic100 table? Does it bore you? Do you forget it? Do you have a tingling sense that you *should* write for your prompts and not do it?
I don't regret it, because I'm still fiddling around with bits and bobs that wil eventually be published. It doesn't bore me because no-one's making me do it; I do occasionally forget it because I'm so damn busy at uni, and I do get tingling guilty moments every now and then. I'm glad I took it on, though, because even though it's a big challenge, it's good for me. :)
Can I directly blame *you* for getting me my first table and the fact that I've followed up with an encore of 306 active prompts?
No! Because I told you not to and everything! I am completely innocent of all blame! :D
Uh....how do you feel about Simon/River as a ship? Complete squick, that-sort-of-works-with-canon-but-no, or they're-so-fucked-up-of-course-they-are?
Hnn. Remember those conversations we've been having about fandom breaking squicks? Right. Well, Simon/River doesn't make me want to throw up in my mouth any more (although it sort of did squick me the first time I thought about it.) As it stands now, I understand why people 'ship it (especially with some of those deleted scenes) and it does sort of work with canon, and I'm not totally devoted to any other Simon or River 'ships so it doesn't bother me too much, but it doesn't really appeal to me all that much, either.
They're still pretty damn fucked up, though, which is why it in some ways works for me.
And, bonus question: writing, first person or third person?
Ah... original fiction and poetry sometimes first; fanfic, NEVER in first person. Ever. I can't even read fanfic in first person, that's how much I hate it. I do like second person sometimes though.
If you ship Rose/Doctor at all, which is the more OTPish ship--Rose/Nine or Rose/Ten?
Definitely Rose/Nine. I enjoy Rose/Ten well enough, but I really deeply believed in Rose/Nine. He was so damaged and needy and he kind of fixated on Rose, whereas Ten is more his own person and he's way more aloof from Rose, which does not OTPishness make.
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Date: 2006-06-18 02:23 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2006-06-18 02:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2006-06-18 04:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2006-06-18 02:36 pm (UTC)Fanfic in first person works sometimes, if the canon has first person. This is the only excuse.
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From:Re: Joss Whedon and Bechdel's law
Date: 2006-06-18 06:12 pm (UTC)I ... I can't hear you! LA LA LA!
...but I don't want Joss to be one of the stupid guys. I love his usual respect for feminism. Crud.
Re: Joss Whedon and Bechdel's law
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Date: 2006-06-19 12:52 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2006-06-19 01:59 am (UTC)But the Rose/Ten vs Rose/Nine is very interesting. I haven't managed to get my hands on any Ten episodes yet, and so have been holding myself back from DW fandom, but I hadn't actually *considered* how Doctor-morphing would affect shipping habits.
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Date: 2006-06-19 03:11 am (UTC)As for Buffy, I tend to agree with your recollection. You might want to give the series a break, though - if it's meeting the law at 50%, then that's equivalent in terms of time to a feature film meeting the law. (It's not as though there are very many conversations in Buffy between two men about something other than a woman, after all.)
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