(no subject)

[labellementeuse]

What's the proper response on TradeMe when you leave someone *very polite* neutral feedback for items that were frankly not as you expected, including the phrase "seller was handicapped by not knowing X", and the seller responds by flipping out and saying "DO YOU NO WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE HANDICAPPED? I DON'T TAKE THAT LIGHTLY. DON'T TRADE WITH ME AGAIN."? (I ended up apologising - but I'm not sure how I could have phrased that in a way that doesn't offer an insult - that was the most neutral phrasing I could come up with. The closest synonym to handicapped in this context is "struggled with" and frankly that seems nasty to me.) Am I completely wrong? Are people who talk about golf handicaps being insensitive? Can the word handicapped no longer be used without presenting an insult? (I mean - I am usually totally onboard with changing meanings of words and, for example, find the "that's so gay" construction offensive as well as puerile. But I had felt that handicapped in the context I used it in retains its original meaning.)

Comments

[dubiously.livejournal.com]

The only other option I can think of would be ignorance, but people tend to flip out over that, too, even when it's used in the literal context.

Beyond this, I wouldn't worry about it. No matter how hard you try to be diplomatic, someone somewhere (especially on the internet; yay for anonymity) will find a way to be offended by your words.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

people tend to flip out over that, too, even when it's used in the literal context.

Right - handicapped seems very neutral to me in this context, where ignorance and so forth are a little nasty.

Yeah, you know, I try to relax, but a lifelong committment to The Right Words sets me back. :P

[eavanmoore.livejournal.com]

1. No, using the word is no cause for offense. The seller's just reaching for a defense. (Possibly related: at least some disability activists prefer to use "disabled" because "handicapped" means one has a problem, rather than simply not being able to do something.)

2. I would still be cautious using it -- not eschew it altogether, but just listen extra-carefully to how the sentence sounds. There is almost always a way to recast if you're in a bit of doubt.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

At least some disability activists prefer to use "disabled" because "handicapped" means one has a problem, rather than simply not being able to do something.)

And, in fact, I don't think I've ever used the word handicapped to mean disabled. (Which may be why I was so annoyed. Ugh.)

Yeah, you're quite right, of course. Ta :)

[amarynth.livejournal.com]

It might be a generational thing - 'handicapped' to mean what we now mean by disabled or physically challenged was much more common in the 80s and earlier, I think.

I think you could have probably said 'seller was disadvantaged by not knowing X' with the same meaning and not caused offense... unless the person was just fuming at not getting positive feedback and looking for something to get offended at, which, as others have said, this being the internet is quite likely. But whatever else handicapped has meant I think it's always maintained the meaning that you intended for it.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I'm well aware of it and it was in pretty common use the one year I tried out primary school ('94.) Its popularity is certainly decreasing, but I don't really think that's it.

Disadvantaged is a good one, I might hang on to that. ta!

[skadi.livejournal.com]

This has been an exceedingly hot topic in a lot of the feminist blogs right now. (If you search for "ablest language," you'll find stuff.)

I ... gosh, I don't want to sounds like a jerk here, but I think that's unavoidable. Obviously, I try not to say stuff like, "Oh, man, those people are being too sensitive!" because I'd get annoyed if someone said that to me when I argued that a commercial/tv show/whatever was sexist. On the other hand, I have a lot of trouble getting worked up about so-called ablest language. I guess you can only pick so many battles before you get worn out, and I was worn out way before I got to this (relatively) recent concern over ablest language.

But, yeah, it's out there, and you can find stuff about it on Feministe, Alas A Blog, and many others.

And I don't know how US-centric this is. The blogs I read are mostly American.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Thanks for connecting me up to that. I did a bit of reading last night and I have to say I found it pretty tough going - no-one's really been able to offer words that can be used instead of crazy, say, or lame. On the other hand, testimony of people who say that use of language like that negatively affects them makes me feel pretty terrible. So who knows? I will probably clean myself up, at least a bit.

[chattycheese.livejournal.com]

I always, always correct people when they say something is "so retarted". I hate that phrase, and I've corrected my superiors once or twice because of it. But that doesn't seem too bad, you were using it in the right context. They were impaired by their lack of knowledge. It works, but some people are just offended by the use of the word.

It's a bummer that even on TradeMe there are crazy peeps. I tried to get a text from someone in Welly last semester, and when I suggested a pickup up at Uni, rather than paying postage, they flipped out on me and accused me of stalking them. Or something. Ehh.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

D: I feel terrible because I say retarded all the time - I got into the habit a year or so ago and haven't been able to break myself of it, despite being well aware that it's the kind of language I'm disgusted at myself when I use.

Jeeze, people are dumb. D: Pick-up's really normal with trademe, too... hey, speaking of Welly, I'm sorry we didn't get to catch up this holidays - I was up last week and I guess you were in Aus!

[chattycheese.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was. Bums, eh? Oh well, I'll be around for a while yet :D Are you coming up during the next holidays?

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Not sure yet! But probs not. Right at the end of exams in November, though... maybe you'll still be around. *crosses fingers*

[chattycheese.livejournal.com]

I should be, for a bit at least- I'm heading back to the upper hemispheres on the tenth. I can be a total creeper, though, and know when your exams and breaks are since my roommate's boyfriend is down in ChCh doing engineering. And she knows exactly when she'll be seeing him again. So, yeah.

[suchroadslead.livejournal.com]

The dislike of the word 'retarded', and then the use of the word 'dumb' intrigues me (not to pick on you at all! ;) ). I wonder if retarded is just less far along the evolution of description to insult (because it does seem common for words to evolve to a point where the meaning is blurred, so the affected group distances itself from the description, and then for the word to become a common insult - for example lame, idiot, and moron), or if there's some other reason.

I don't think try I'll offer any further insight, because I'm not aware of the issues here, and I'll just insult someone, and then there'll be pistols at dawn, etc, etc... ;)

I did find an interesting discussion on the topic at http://www.michaelberube.com/index.php/weblog/a_stupid_proposal/ , in the comments.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

Go ahead, pick on me! It's good for the constitution. I think there's a clear line between retarded and dumb - to do, yes, with proximity to insult - but it's harder for me to draw the line between dumb and lame, dumb and crazy (and lame and crazy are both words whose frequent use have been criticised in internet debates I've read recently.) I don't know, I struggle with it - while I can think of plenty of synonyms for idiot, moron, and bad person, I really struggle to think of a word that conveys the implied irrationality of crazy, or the implied sense of being simultaneously irrelevant and ridiculous of lame.

PS YOU DIDN'T SAY BEN WAS A NATIONAL VOTER. MAY NOT BE ABLE TO COPE.